A healthy discussion on alternate accounts (alts)

Hello all,

Through my conversations with the community of AtWar, I have noticed that many players have a cold fear of playing matches against "alts," or alternate accounts. The motivation for this fear likely has multiple bases, such as high ranked players disguising as new players or guests and the mystery behind alternate accounts in general. I hope to encourage players to think logically rather than emotionally when making decisions about matches with alts and start a healthy discussion about the topic. Feel free to read/post/be involved in this discussion and try to communicate your ideas clearly and briefly.

A moderator mentioned to me one time that using alts in a coalition war is "frowned upon." I want to discover the reasons underlying this perspective. First, below is a list of rules directed specifically toward alts.

• Do not register an alternate account for the purpose of disobeying the rules to avoid punishment of your main account. Alternate accounts created for this purpose will receive permanent bans, and this may incur additional action regarding the member's main account.
  
  
• Do not register an alternate account to post when your main account is banned. These alternate accounts will be permanently suspended and may necessitate other moderation actions.
  
  
• "Farming" is not allowed in any way, fe: Joining a game with 2 accounts, playing with first and second coalitions, playing or creating a scenario for gaining SP only.
  
  
• Creating multiple accounts and joining more coalitions is allowed. Also playing coalition wars for several coalitions is allowed. But it is not allowed to participate in a coalition war, if you are also part of the other coalition at that time.

Players that act in accordance with these rules should not be frowned upon. I have heard arguments to the contrary, which I hope is where most of the discussion will take place.

Argument: A coalition has the right to refuse to war against an alt.
Analysis: This is very true. Coalitions have the right to refuse a war for any reason, e.g. being outranked, outnumbered, mistreated, or even just not comfortable with the game settings.

Argument: An alt account is just as skilled as the main account.
Analysis: This is also true. However, skill and ability are two different qualities. A player has the same skill regardless of the account he is using. But a player's ability is determined both by his skill and his upgrades. Examples: If a fairly new player is given all the upgrades, he will still lose to an experienced player who has none. Conversely, when Logic exploited a loophole in the game mechanics, he was able to consistently win against more skilled players because his units were upgraded. Therefore we must conclude that ability is determined both by skill and upgrades. This leads to only one conclusion. An alt account is not the same caliber as a main account because it is lacking upgrades. When balancing teams for a coalition war, the two coalitions should negotiate based on both player skill and the upgrades available to that player (which can be inferred from rank).

Argument 3: Alts are not good for the AtWar community.
Analysis: This is not a fact, but rather an opinion. This stereotype probably stemmed from the misuses of alt accounts by players that were banned, restricted, having intent to farm SP, or otherwise causing mischief. Players have various reasons for creating alt accounts. Some want to play on the same level as those without premium upgrades to balance the game. Others may have a hard time finding high ranked matches, or just desire to play more casually. I personally have made alt accounts to explore other strategies/upgrades because I did not want to spend the SP on my main account. Someone who uses an alt does not necessarily intend to deceive others or conceal their true identity. Keep in mind that some alt accounts are owned by unskilled players. Usually only the alt accounts that are owned by skilled players are identified by the community.

Please feel free to post and support your opinions here on the subject.

Cheers!

Quota:

An alt account is not the same caliber as a main account because it is lacking upgrades.

I seriously agree with this. Whenever the Admins have time, I'd hope they could go over the upgrade system in an effort to try to achieve balance.

Scritto da notserral, 11.12.2013 at 18:25

Quota:

An alt account is not the same caliber as a main account because it is lacking upgrades.

I seriously agree with this. Whenever the Admins have time, I'd hope they could go over the upgrade system in an effort to try to achieve balance.

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Scritto da Guest, 22.11.2013 at 14:36

Elimination of Upgrades/Strategies, and implementation of an in-match store, akin to Dota 2, as an example.

*Cough cough*

Scritto da notserral, 11.12.2013 at 18:25

Quota:

An alt account is not the same caliber as a main account because it is lacking upgrades.

I seriously agree with this. Whenever the Admins have time, I'd hope they could go over the upgrade system in an effort to try to achieve balance.

exactly

Quota:

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Scritto da Guest, 22.11.2013 at 14:36

Elimination of Upgrades/Strategies, and implementation of an in-match store, akin to Dota 2, as an example.

*Cough cough*

where you suggest this? Is a great idea. I assume you mean like having all upgrades available, can pick 5 of them etc?

Alts don't bother me, is just sad to see them used vs inferior players.

Having to pick a max number of upgrades for games has been suggested many times.

Scritto da b0nker2, 11.12.2013 at 19:12

Alts don't bother me, is just sad to see them used vs inferior players.

Yes, I agree to an extent. But also sometimes inferior players pick up a few tricks and can have a learning experience. However, today I tried to cw with evoL on my alt. Some players/mods made such a big deal out of using an alt in a cw that I just gave up trying. I hope to hear from them as to why cw'ing with an alt is frowned upon if the alt is identified. Many from evoL have known my alt for months now.

Quota:

Scritto da b0nker2, 11.12.2013 at 19:12

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Scritto da Guest, 22.11.2013 at 14:36

Elimination of Upgrades/Strategies, and implementation of an in-match store, akin to Dota 2, as an example.

*Cough cough*

where you suggest this? Is a great idea. I assume you mean like having all upgrades available, can pick 5 of them etc?

Alts don't bother me, is just sad to see them used vs inferior players.

Nono, the ability to purchase Upgrades in-game (Within a match) with resources, like how you would buy units.

Good post, alts are fun. Say no to alt shaming.

Yes i remember beating a good players alt then desu telling me he would rape me on his main just because of upgrades difference hehe. The upgrades difference it too vast. Anyway getting on topic, you are allowed to do everything on alts except basically farm,troll, and cw vs your own clan. It is not frowned upon to cw on alt, but frowned upon to cw on alt without telling the opposing team. Its fun to play on your alt honestly and they should stay allowed, even more fun to cw with it.

Am i the only one who actually likes the current upgrade system?. the upgrades give me something to work towards, actually ranking up has never been of much interest to me.

Alts should be I.P. permab&

Just some thoughts:

- Experience and skill have MUCH more impact on the game than upgrades do.
- You can win or lose to ANY player anytime no matter what rank or experience.
- Alts are used to test stuff, play easier opponents or get more games.
- The current system allows easy access for new players who just want a quick peak and dont like to register.
- On the downside, it can be a pain for moderation.

Personally, I think the whole concept of upgrades was pretty good but is outdated nowadays.
I would be in favour of equal abilities in game but advanced options, more social features
and cosmetics for high rank and premium players like many of you suggested before.

I agree with VRIL.

I've played with a few alts, just because the game offer is so much bigger in the Beginner section, and the gameplay is vastly different. The game feels easier with more upgrades, and when playing against a Rank 7 or Rank 8, there were times when an upgrade would've made a world of difference. I'm in favor of an advanced option: "Allow all upgrades".

Cheers.

Scritto da Goblin, 12.12.2013 at 07:20

Do we really need to make alt's stronger ...is that a real necessity? Even as a option?

Thing is... low ranked players shouldn't be disadvantaged just for being low ranked.

The benefit of being high ranked should be more options in choosing from a variety of upgrades. They shouldn't be stronger though.

That's like saying the bum in the street should have the same rights and protection that Obama enjoys. Everyone is equal, everybody wins, what's the point then, nobody will try to gain SP anymore.

Higher ranked players should have, and deserve advantages over a player who's just starting out.

Scritto da Unleashed, 12.12.2013 at 10:11

That's like saying the bum in the street should have the same rights and protection that Obama enjoys. Everyone is equal, everybody wins, what's the point then, nobody will try to gain SP anymore.

Higher ranked players should have, and deserve advantages over a player who's just starting out.

agreed.

Scritto da VRIL, 12.12.2013 at 03:24

Just some thoughts:

- Experience and skill have MUCH more impact on the game than upgrades do.
- You can win or lose to ANY player anytime no matter what rank or experience.
- Alts are used to test stuff, play easier opponents or get more games.
- The current system allows easy access for new players who just want a quick peak and dont like to register.
- On the downside, it can be a pain for moderation.

Personally, I think the whole concept of upgrades was pretty good but is outdated nowadays.
I would be in favour of equal abilities in game but advanced options, more social features
and cosmetics for high rank and premium players like many of you suggested before.

In my time playing AtWar (Note: Not Afterwind, just AW 2.0), I've noticed that skill means jack shit now, thanks to it being extremely over-simplified, compared to the micro-managing, TB-ridden, flower-power tactics of yesteryear, where actual tactical skill was more necessary than it is nowadays, and also because of this, Upgrades now play a much more apparent role. Other than that, I agree with your post, especially changing upgrades and adding cosmetics.

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Had a thought about Upgrades, deriving from my original point, that could add a sense of strategy without cumber stores/shoppes: Instead of my original idea of having an in-match store (Used in actual matches going on, upgrades/strats bought with in-game resources), each unit could have a sort of "Level". When built, they start at level 1, and as you gain more SP, or pay for levels, more upgrades are added for the unit, which can be capped off at 3 or so. Could have some fancy-ass stars surrounding higher-level units or some shit. Going a little deep into the rabbit-hole and off-topic, so I'll shut my mouth now : )

Give a rank 4 faster inf. He will still spam tanks.
Give a rank 4 expendable inf. He will still spam tanks.
Give a rank 4 Sky Menace. He will still play blitz or MoS.
Give a rank 4 Lucky inf, He will still spam tanks.

Scritto da notserral, 12.12.2013 at 06:22

I've played with a few alts, just because the game offer is so much bigger in the Beginner section, and the gameplay is vastly different. The game feels easier with more upgrades, and when playing against a Rank 7 or Rank 8, there were times when an upgrade would've made a world of difference. I'm in favor of an advanced option: "Allow all upgrades."

I feel the same way. Upgrades have a very big impact on the game when two players are at approximately the same skill level, or even if they are on slightly different skill levels. Perhaps Vril is too skilled to have experienced this.



It seems that many players are interested in the idea of equal upgrade opportunities for all players.

Quota:

Quota:

Scritto da Goblin, 12.12.2013 at 15:31

It seems that many players are interested in the idea of equal upgrade opportunities for all players.

Pardon me for noticing ...but that option already exists ..."no upgrades option".

So if any of you whant to give equal oportunities to your fellow poor low ranks and alt's i suggest you do just that.

Heh, by equal opportunity I don't mean no upgrade opportunity. That's no fun!

Here is an interesting read about card upgrades. I am not trying to derail my own train here, just a rabbit trail (thanks Pulse).

http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=7779

Alts and upgrades go hand-in-hand, so conversation about how upgrades affect alts is welcome.

Scritto da Guest, 12.12.2013 at 13:54

In my time playing AtWar (Note: Not Afterwind, just AW 2.0), I've noticed that skill means jack shit now, thanks to it being extremely over-simplified, compared to the micro-managing, TB-ridden, flower-power tactics of yesteryear, where actual tactical skill was more necessary than it is nowadays, and also because of this, Upgrades now play a much more apparent role. Other than that, I agree with your post, especially changing upgrades and adding cosmetics.

Actually, the old system was over-simplified. The new system allows for way more micro-management and the variety of possibilities for TBs is much more intricate. It's players' game style that is over-simplified; and tbh, that's not even the case anymore. The competitive level of players and skill level has increased significantly in the last 6-8 months.

Scritto da notserral, 12.12.2013 at 06:22

I agree with VRIL.

I've played with a few alts, just because the game offer is so much bigger in the Beginner section, and the gameplay is vastly different. The game feels easier with more upgrades, and when playing against a Rank 7 or Rank 8, there were times when an upgrade would've made a world of difference. I'm in favor of an advanced option: "Allow all upgrades".

Cheers.

i disagree with this, if such an option was included nobody would ever play without it being activated, and it would completely undermine the current sp system, not to mention it would dissuade the purchase of premium accounts by members as the sp boost and general feature would be available to all.

as a low rank, you see all these cool upgrades and strats that you can buy, this gives you something to work towards, which equals more games being played.

more games being played = good for atwar

new strats and upgrades to work towards rather than everything being available at once = game not growing stale so quickly.

Scritto da tophat, 12.12.2013 at 16:49

Scritto da Guest, 12.12.2013 at 13:54

In my time playing AtWar (Note: Not Afterwind, just AW 2.0), I've noticed that skill means jack shit now, thanks to it being extremely over-simplified, compared to the micro-managing, TB-ridden, flower-power tactics of yesteryear, where actual tactical skill was more necessary than it is nowadays, and also because of this, Upgrades now play a much more apparent role. Other than that, I agree with your post, especially changing upgrades and adding cosmetics.

Actually, the old system was over-simplified. The new system allows for way more micro-management and the variety of possibilities for TBs is much more intricate. It's players' game style that is over-simplified; and tbh, that's not even the case anymore. The competitive level of players and skill level has increased significantly in the last 6-8 months.

I haven't noticed any competition at all since my return, in fact most rank 8+ seem about as good as the old Rank 5-6's from 2011. Has the competitive level of players increased, or has competition just spread around to more players? I've seen and played quite a few riled Rank 5's who will talk the talk, but cannot walk the walk...why? Is there no walk to walk anymore? Is this why competition has been bastardized into playing Eu+ with two teams of three? I've also noticed many "skillful" players of rank 8 or higher tend to not teach anyone a damn thing for the most part (If you visit the forum often, you're probably not one of these people, since Forum-goers are usually an introverted breed all their own), or relish themselves in clan-hopping, feudal warfare that is the current CW system...but back to the point: Competition is in the wrong place right now, and is not being used hand-in-hand with problem solving and survivalist tactics Nobody seems to remember how many times people have won, just by using the chat feature to manipulate or negotiate with others, or to use different speeds when expanding (Right now, it seems like Auto-Win if you can expand extremely fast and relentlessly, whilst being able to run it, which is fairly easy, compared to Shelling and keeping a small limit, bur strong force). I probably rambled a lot through this, as I usually do, so take it with a grain of salt, and try and have a fun response, if you have one.

Yes, in my world the bum in the street would enjoy the same rights and protections Obama has. The upgrade system needs an overhaul, at least to make everything cheaper, as in all upgrades by rank 6. Make the competitive and scenario sides more interesting and people will have things to work towards.

I'm just going to respond to OP since I don't have time to read through the whole thread, alts are a necessary evil in my opinion and here is why:

first and foremost, enforcement:
Putting such a strain on moderators is unnecessary, so many people have alts it's crazy, even moderators themselves. I think outlawing alts could have been implemented in Beta but it is so engrained in AW at this point in time it would be almost impossible to actually do this without setting up some script to punish someone for having an alt, and the problem with scripts is they can't use judgement.

second: anonymity is nice
when I was actively playing I was very well known, and due to that a lot of people would want to challenge me, not a day went by that I didn't get at least four to five 1v1 requests. With this also came rank bias, people in world games who would team up and fight against you allied just due to your rank, this included noobs and rank 8-9s for me personally. There is also the fact people hold personal grudges, I was quite controversial back in the day and it didn't make me many friends, and so people would latejoin me ect and alts would help fix this issue. Sometimes I just liked to relax and play a game of AW.

Third: Alts in clns
I would like to talk about this due to the fact I was probably one of the first to do it, I know there are obvious cons to this but I want to touch on the pros first. To the user of the alt, joining a different cln can give you a different experience and make new friends just like joining one with your main account would. I know that this means CWs are sometimes rigged due to a much better than predicted skill but I've ALWAYS been against a cln doing a fair ranks CW, it really doesn't matter what rank you are because AW is so luck based, people should just learn to enjoy a tense match and disregard a loss. In my opinion it is the highly competitive nature of AW in comparison to its size that is more damaging than the alts within it.

and finally in regard to skill,
What difference does it make? Upgrades are a huge benefit and giving them up on an alt will likely make you lose, for example I have lost to some rank 6-8s just because they have sky menace or a slightly working imp, or a PD with upgrades, as an alt you really only have PD as a choice and defense while nice is quite easy to counter by being a defensive player yourself with superior units; it kinda takes the fun out of the game but honestly skill means nothing to raw numbers.

and even so, What does it matter? If they beat you on an alt just because you didn't expect them to be so good at such a level it kind of falls on you, it is a fault of your prediction after all. You can always see an alt from their first turn expansion too. It's fair to assume that same person would beat you even harder on their main account.

Wow I'm surprised to see Mods looking for an overhaul of the upgrades. This will doubtfully happen for one reason :
Upgrades are essential in keeping a player playing. Making upgrades different would then make earning SP useless. This would change the game for so many people. You need upgrades as an incentive. It's what keeps people in this game.
Weaker players have their own community while the better players have their own for the reason that they play at that level with those upgrades. The ranking system is beautifully built and theres no need to remake it. If someone wants an alt, they are just switching to a different level of play. There are many good new players that have potential and can stand up to an alt of a good player. In this way alts are totally fine to have and if someone wants one for a good reason it is OK to have one.

Scritto da x___, 12.12.2013 at 22:03

Wow I'm surprised to see Mods looking for an overhaul of the upgrades. This will doubtfully happen for one reason :
Upgrades are essential in keeping a player playing. Making upgrades different would then make earning SP useless. This would change the game for so many people. You need upgrades as an incentive. It's what keeps people in this game.
Weaker players have their own community while the better players have their own for the reason that they play at that level with those upgrades. The ranking system is beautifully built and theres no need to remake it. If someone wants an alt, they are just switching to a different level of play. There are many good new players that have potential and can stand up to an alt of a good player. In this way alts are totally fine to have and if someone wants one for a good reason it is OK to have one.

Sorry to say this, but when HTML5 rolls around (And if promotion is tight), our little community could easily explode into the millions overnight, so I'm afraid that the current SP system needs to be reworked to be incentive and fair for everyone.