Turnblocking Guide(Complete).

The following is a complete guide on turnblocking, complete in that it contains all known knowlege regarding tbs. it seems to be 1 subject in the AW community which few players feel they have a complete understanding of. This guide is aimed at hopefully correcting that. I had kept it soley in Illyrias clan forum up until now but i have decided to release it.

Some of the following information will be pulled directly from posts and guides from both hugosch and tophats. The rest will come from my own observations and testing with other players. If you've any additions or corrections please post below.




To know how turnblocking works, its very important to know how 'move priority' works. All movements are prioritized according to the order of players actions meaning, your first action will move first. So if you want to turnblock an enemy stack, you have the biggest chance if your first move is a turnblock. Time does not matter in this case, it only matters with what unit you move first. Cancelled moves don't count.

The turnblocking works like this:
Chance to turnblock = to the difference between you and your enemies troop counts
Chance % = your units count / opponent units count
Example:
You have 3 Militias and your enemy has 10.
3/10 = 30 % Chance
This will work upto a max of 50%. So even if you match or send more troops than your enemy, there is a 50% chance he will avoid.

That is unless your priority is higher than them, because then the chance to turnblock doubles so with the same situation, yet you moving before the enemy does.
In the Example
(3/10)*2 = 60%
This will work upto a max of 99%.

In the case of turnblocking up to 4 units on an equal priority move, a 1 unit tb will have a 50% chance of turnblocking, as opposed to the 25% you might expect. This is ONLY in the case of tb attempts on up to 4 units.



Turnblocking involving naval is a little different and is something many in the community do not understand fully. According to other guides on turnblocking on the forums and news updates by Ivan and amok themselves, when attempting tbs on naval trans, the units inside the trans are not counted into the tb% chance calculation. However i had always thought otherwise due to what id seen in game, and after carrying out tests i came to conclude that the units were indeed counted in the calculation. I sent Screenshots of the tests to Ivan and he replied with this.



I had always believed the tbs on beached transports included the units inside in the tb calculation and tbs on unbeached trans(trans at sea) did not. However my tests have shown whether beached or unbeached, the Units in the trans are definitely counted in the tb % calculations.

The following screenshots are of tests of tb attempts on unbeached and beached trans. The units were moved into the trans and then to a new location in order of from right to left, and the tbs were carried out on the trans in order of from right to left. Note that the 1 unit tbs all failed, and in this instance, the 8 unit tbs all succeeded. While only 1 set of screenshots is provided, many of these tests were carried out multiple times to expected results.













So for now, until Ivan and Amok reveal new updates to this, when attempting tbs on trans, the units in the trans count in the tb % calculation whether the trans is beached or at sea. so if youre attempting to tb a full naval trans, send 8 units for a full 50% tb chance, 8/16*100(assuming equal priorities). your 1 unit tbs might work if your opponent doesnt priorities his moves correctly, or if you are extremely lucky.

For tbs on airtrans, the units do not count in the tb % calculation, so there is no issue there. a 1 unit tb will suffice(or 2 units to ensure you actually kill the airtrans).




We have all been in a situation where we've attempted to merge units from several locations into one big stack to attack a target, only to find the next turn the entire stack hasnt moved or has moved but not reached the intended destination, or worse in the case of stacks containing a general, the general has went on a solo suicide mission leaving all the troops behind.

This is due to turnblocks on components of the main stack which you merged from other locations.

For example, say if you were moving 2 stacks of 10 inf from different locations to a main stack of 80 inf, then you moved the entire stack to a new location. If one of the stacks of 10 inf are tb'd the entire stack will not move.

In the case of merging different unit types into a main stack, if you merged say 10 milita and 10 inf into a main stack of 40 inf and 40 milita, then move the new merged stack to a new location. If the 10 milita are tb'd only the infantry in the main stack will move to the new location. Similarly if the 10 inf are tb'd, only the milita will move to the new location.

This can be seen in the following screenshots. In the first screenshot there are 5 inf in romania and 10 in bulgaria. i merged the 5inf into the main stack and attempted to attack macedonia. i tb'd the 5 inf in romania using 5 bombers, after performing some other moves in order to ensure the tb had a 100% chance of succeeding.



The 5 units were tb'd, so the main stack did not move.

This however can be countered if you suspect the tb attempt on that location and want to ensure the 10 inf at least reach the target. In the following screenshot, i imerged the 5 inf into the main stack of 10 inf to make 15 inf, then i took 10 inf from the main stack in bulgaria to attack macedonia, before sending the remaining 5. The results are as follows.



The 10 inf made it to the new location, inspite of the 5 inf being tb'd. This is one method to counter tbs that you suspect may be sent on locations youre merging units from. Although this is a difficult counter to apply in actual gameplay.

The next screenshot involes merging a stack of 5 tanks 5 inf from romania and cluj to a stack of 10 tanks 10 inf in bulgaria and then moving them to Albania. The tb was attempted on the tanks situated in cluj.



notice how only the infantry made it to albania? This is also the cause of your general sometimes going on solo suicide missions, he is counted as a different unit type.

Turnblocking Your Opponent

Turnblocking is a very important part of gameplay, if you ever play any of the truly good players of atwar, you will notice that if you dont prioritise your moves correctly they will crucify you with tbs. slowing expansion and attack. When attempting tbs on an opponent, always attempt a 1 unit tb on their main stack(usually includes their general) or stacks. If they have to separate the stack out to complete multiple moves that 1 unit tb could prevent the later moves from being completed.

if you expect attacks on an area, or indeed a rush on your cap, often a 1 unit tb on their main stack or port isnt your best bet. particularly if the other player is knowlegeable and knows how to reduce the risk of being tb'd. If your opponent has to merge troops from other areas often a 1 unit tb on these areas is a better choice at stopping the entire stack. If you know they havent enough troops to cap you that are visible, then they will HAVE to pull troops from elsewhere, and this is where your best bet of stopping the stack is.

Another point of note is knowing when not to attempt to turnblock. For example you have several stacks to move to a target location, they will almost definitely attempt to turnblock you. you cant afford any of your stacks not reaching the target location. for every tb you attempt you give their tb attempts a higher % chance of success. So be careful.




There are many precautions a player can take in order to reduce the risk of being turnblocked.

• Walling - This is the most important tool a player has to avoid a turnblocking attempt on a stack, its simple, if your units are walled they cant be turnblocked. If youre moving units to a location in order to attack a target. wall them.
  
• Move Prioritisation - Always watch your move prioritisation, if you're trying to decide which stack to move first, consider which would be more devastating to have tb'd, then work from there. Walled units should be the LOWEST priority on your list of moves as there is no chance of them being tb'd(unless you merge other units into them from an unwalled location)
  
• Moving the components of a merged stack from several unwalled locations separately. ( as shown in the stack merging tb section)
  
• When separating out a stack of units that you know the opponent will attempt to tb, move the stack out of the city before separting it to different locations. If you attempt to separate the stack from inside the city, you risk some of your moves getting tb'd and not going through.

you also have the option of moving a stack out of the Location likely to be tb'd - If you have to move units from several unwalled location to a primary port, for example istanbul in turk to attack kiev, theres a simple trick to avoid a tb on the istanbul port. Move the trans and the units outside the port and merge from the other areas into there.





- You can use the tb system defensively. What i mean by this is shifting units around into locations your enemy can/will hit. Be careful though if your opponent is making more moves than you you'll get latemoved. This is at the end of all your main moves and you have range still on units sent to defend cities. An example would be a PD germany player trying to retain his full country bonuses. If there is range remaining on the infantry defending he can shift them to other cities. if any are hit the units will be tbd there defending it. Another example would be a turk player trying to retain the balkans shifting his units around serbia/bulg/hungary/romania as his last move in case any are hit by an agressive ukraine. It is little tricks like this that separate a good player from a great player.

- You should also use this to avoid latemoves. It can be very tempting to empty a city completely to maximise expansion, for example as ukraine with russia central. Having moscow latemoved off you hurts due to the income reset. If you are going to risk shifting all units out particularly the defensive ones. Do it as your last move.

- Always build walls on cities/targets that are at risk of attack as a last move. I'm sure every high rank has experienced times where using defensive units to make a wall cost them that city.

- Previously after a clan war I screenshotted my movements as UK at the end of a turn to show how much micromanagement I put into a country. The lower ranks were surpised by how much i had done as theyd consider UK a country that takes very little time. I had shifted units around to defend all the cities. I'd stacked london and then moved those units out to form walls and perform actions elsewhere. It's little things like this that separate the good players from the great.



- If you've 3 transports on the coast you know an enemy will try to tb, its risky moving them all close to your stack and then filling them as a bomber or a unit with the necessary range will follow them to a new location and tb them there. Leave 1 transport behind and the tb units will not follow. This also applies to stacks in the open. Tb units dont follow stacks that are in cities and then moved out.

Please see Witch doctor's guide on intercepts for further information. https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=33026



What counts as a move?

- Moving troops from A to B(obviously)

- Zigzagging a troop stack counts as one move. For example this is one move.



- Unloading troops from a transport naval or air counts as a move.


Are troops produced in a city containing other troops counted in the tb calculation?

Yes they are, troops produced in a city are not counted as a move. So no matter at what point in the turn you produce the troops in the city theyll be taken into account in the tb % calculation of any tb attempts on that city.


Let say I am trying to TB 10 infantry

1st move I send 1 unit from one place
2st move I send another unit from other place
3st move I send 5 units from another place

What are my chances of sucess? and do I have 3 different chances or they get mixed up

I believe the % chance of tb would be 70/2/2 so 17.5%, all 7 units would be counted as a third priority tb attempt. However it would take me 100s of tests to form any reliable conclusion on this. What i do know however, is that you wont have a 70% chance of tb, the units sent wont be counted as a first priority tb attempt. Either the tb % chances are summed up or the tb % is all calculated from the last move. Whatever the case may be it is not very important for gameplay.

What are "untbable transports"?

https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=16986

This about wraps up the guide and sums up all the known knowlege involving tbs. please post any questions, additions or corrections below.

Scritto da Permamuted, 22.10.2014 at 22:39

I had kept it soley in Illyrias clan forum up until now but i have decided to release it.

YESSSSSSSSSSSS Thanks you Laochra! A lot of players will learn from this!

Scritto da Permamuted, 22.10.2014 at 22:39

That is unless your priority is higher than them, because then the chance to turnblock doubles so with the same situation, yet you moving before the enemy does.
In the Example
(3/10)*2 = 60%
This will work upto a max of 100%.

Firstly very good article, very informative. This part was new information to me and I think its more of a bug. Your tb move being earlier than your opponents priority move should not double the chances of tb. This is also the reason why the I think tbs are actually so successful. I don't think chance of tb should ever be more than 50%.

Scritto da minusSeven, 23.10.2014 at 08:37

I don't think chance of tb should ever be more than 50%.

With piority it is lol. I think it works like this:

First the troops are taken into account:

" If Player A attack player B with at least 50% of the amount of troops that player B have, then the tb is 50% chance".

After that, the piority is calculed. When player B attack player A:

Player A vs Player B
1st piority vs 2nd piority = 0.5x chances for player B (1st piority)
2st piority vs 3rd piority = 0.5x chances for Player B (2st piority)

1st piority vs 3rd piority = 0.33 chances for Player B (1st piority)


In reverse, I mean, When player A attack player B

Player A vs Player B
1st piority vs 2st piority = 2x chances for Player A (1st piority)
2st piority vs 3rd piority = 2x chances for player A (2st piority)

1st piority vs 3rd piority = 3x chances for player A (1st piority)




N piority vs (AN) piority = (N/AN) * (Currently chances of TB determined by troop number) .


and so on... So, Let say 100 tanks try to TB 1 infantry, but the infantry was moved as 1st piority and the 100 tanks where moved as 100th piority:

Chance of TB: "Since 100 tanks are more than 50% of the 1 infantry stack, then the chances of TB are set at 50%"

However, adding piority:

1st piority vs 100th piority = 1/100 (50%) = 0.01% (50%) = 0.5 chances of TB.

Now, let say the opposite: The infantry try to attack the 100 tanks. The infantry was moved for attack on first turn, and the tanks where moved from there as 100th piority.

Chance of TB: " 1/100 = 0.01% chances of TB " ( This is, by troop number)"

100th piority vs 1st piority = 100/1 (0.01%) = 100(0.01%) = 1% chances of TB.

The chances of TB by troop number can go from somewhere near 0 to 50%.

The chances of TB by piority is a multiplier from the chances of TB by troop number. It can either boost TB chances to 100% or lower it to somewhere near 0%


And no, piority is the moves you do, it does not take into account who was faster or the moves cancelled. I think it take into account that you move an unit to a city or an unit to somewhere in the map, or merging stacks, or attacking.

Scritto da clovis1122, 23.10.2014 at 08:49

With piority it is lol

Define what you mean by priority? I think here it just means you making move faster than your opponent.

Regardless I don't think tb chance should ever be more than 50% .

Good guide!

Scritto da Guest, 22.10.2014 at 23:35

I didn't know units in transports weren't supposed to be counted. xD Honestly if they take that away NC defiantly become much weaker... +boost to SM nerf to NC :/

Though it has been obvious for some time that "Docking" is broken. Plenty of occurrences where ships near land but not docked are counted as docked during attack phase and vice versa (transport full of units docked on land not being counted as docked in battle).

Turn blocking overall still quiet complicated *And Priority is horrible in a turn based game* hence why so many people ask , we shouldn't need a huge guide for what should be a simple mechanic!

So I'm just going to leave this here -> Better Turnblock

i would agree with you, i believe units in beached/docked trans should be counted in tb % calculation and those at sea should not. If it is changed to the units never being counted in a trans, all strats will be affected. sm the least since it has other forms of transport.

yea the docking feature(better term than beached thanks lol) is a bit shakey, it could be improved.

but i do disagree about the system being too complicated, i like it this way since it adds dept and puts more thought into your turns, i couldnt imagine what the game would be like without the priority system.

As for your idea, its an interesting one, but if i were to alter this guide to describe what youre suggesting, it would still be the same length and just as complicated, since your suggestion only changes how the tb % is calculated. It would actually be a more complicated system, given how unit stats vary from map to map. Every time youd want to tb a big mixed stack and want to know how many units are required to get a decent tb % you would need a calculator .

Great post

Scritto da Guest, 23.10.2014 at 13:38

You need a calculator for basic maths? @_@ You might not have even looked at the thread though since you said "many units are required" Unit amount wouldn't matter only thing taken into account would be attack/defence

You wouldn't need to keep track of amount of units your putting in or wha priority they are or if they are on transports or not. All that matters is the units that are attacking a stack is there attack stack compared to others defence stat.


I understand removing priority would change how so people play but priorities have no place in a timed turn based game. It makes no sense (why would units across the globe affect units thousands of Km in there movements), I shouldn't have to drop what I'm doing somewhere to go make one move somewhere else, it also adds complexity to the formula and is quite hard to redo with out reloading.

im quite good at math, but it would take me a few secs in my head to determine what 8X67 is and calculate what the needed attack/defense is required to tb that stack. ofc then theres maps with units of upwards of 13 att/def, throw them into a stack of over 100 mixed with other units and tell me how quickly you calculate your tb % along with accounting for all your other moves within a 4 min turn. Not to mention the effects of your opponents strats and gen on stats.

i mentioned "many units are required" because thats relevant to your suggestion... obviously if you seek to tb a stack with 80 defense youre not going to find a single 80 attack unit to tb it with... or 40 attack, but you didnt mention the specifics of how the % is calculated in your suggestion.

if you removed priorities and made it so that biggest stack goes first suddenly countries with high starting reins would become very powerful. I'm not sure relating aw to real world battles is the best way to determine how to make the battle mechanics work.

Mods need to sticky this or add it to the knowledge collection.

Scritto da EndsOfInvention, 23.10.2014 at 15:46

Mods need to sticky this or add it to the knowledge collection.

Scritto da Guest, 23.10.2014 at 17:23

Support for mods sticking this and adding to knowledge collection

Support for mods sticking this and adding to knowledge colletion.

Nice sharing Illyrian testings with general AW population

GGL Good Guy Laochra

Scritto da Acquiesce, 23.10.2014 at 22:22

Nice sharing Illyrian testings with general AW population

GGL Good Guy Laochra

Thanks

Scritto da Acquiesce, 23.10.2014 at 22:22

Nice sharing Illyrian testings with general AW population

GGL Good Guy Laochra

Great thread!
Thnx!

I have one question.

Let say I am trying to TB 10 infantry

1st move I send 1 unit from one place
2st move I send another unit from other place
3st move I send 5 units from another place.

What are my chances of sucess? and do I have 3 different chances or they get mixed up

Scritto da Permamuted, 22.10.2014 at 22:39

I had kept it soley in Illyrias clan forum up until now but i have decided to release it.

Kicking for releasing Illyria Hight Politics State Secrets!

Scritto da Your Monkey, 26.10.2014 at 15:53

Sharing is caring. Thank you sir!

Scritto da clovis1122, 23.10.2014 at 18:13

Scritto da EndsOfInvention, 23.10.2014 at 15:46

Mods need to sticky this or add it to the knowledge collection.

Scritto da Guest, 23.10.2014 at 17:23

Support for mods sticking this and adding to knowledge collection

Support for mods sticking this and adding to knowledge colletion.

Pls mods, stick it already, you guys also know this is pure gold. Ty laochra.

Illyria can bite a bullet.

But nice thread.

Let the planes attack the transports at their target location (if they have the range)

Awesome Guide gj Lao

Scritto da clovis1122, 23.10.2014 at 08:49

Now, let say the opposite: The infantry try to attack the 100 tanks. The infantry was moved for attack on first turn, and the tanks where moved from there as 100th piority.

Chance of TB: " 1/100 = 0.01% chances of TB " ( This is, by troop number)"

100th piority vs 1st piority = 100/1 (0.01%) = 100(0.01%) = 1% chances of TB.

Sorry if I'm mistaken, but isn't 1/100 = 1%, and therefore chance of TB = 100%?

Scritto da International, 01.11.2014 at 23:36

Scritto da clovis1122, 23.10.2014 at 08:49

Now, let say the opposite: The infantry try to attack the 100 tanks. The infantry was moved for attack on first turn, and the tanks where moved from there as 100th piority.

Chance of TB: " 1/100 = 0.01% chances of TB " ( This is, by troop number)"

100th piority vs 1st piority = 100/1 (0.01%) = 100(0.01%) = 1% chances of TB.

Sorry if I'm mistaken, but isn't 1/100 = 1%, and therefore chance of TB = 100%?

Well, yeah

I remember this, lao It indeed deserves a thread.

Thats good stuff thanks

Just saw this haha, this is excellent stuff good work Lao!! <3

Nice thread, but something is leaving me a bit confused.
If I want to get my troops out of Istanbul in transports, should I stack Istanbul and then move my loaded transports out (so that it would need more tb units to get a good percentage of chances to tb) or move my transports out of Istanbul early and load them after (to avoid giving my opponent the priority bonus)?
And does the priority bonus is always 2 or it gets better when the difference of priority is greater?

Scritto da Autumn, 29.11.2014 at 22:20

Nice thread, but something is leaving me a bit confused.
If I want to get my troops out of Istanbul in transports, should I stack Istanbul and then move my loaded transports out (so that it would need more tb units to get a good percentage of chances to tb) or move my transports out of Istanbul early and load them after (to avoid giving my opponent the priority bonus)?
And does the priority bonus is always 2 or it gets better when the difference of priority is greater?

yea good question, ill add a bit to the guide to clarify, it depends, yea if you move out the trans out of istanbul first move and they tb first move with 1 unit there is a 50% chance of the trans getting tb'd, if you move in 15 units in first move then move the trans out 2nd move it'll be roughly a 14% chance of tb. So in that case you would lower your tb %, but ofc don't risk this if the tb % chance is > 50%, as it does double with each increasing priority.